20 Years of Building Cost Software:

Sasan Hashemi (Host): Hello everybody, and welcome to the second episode of Beyond Cost. Today’s guest is Thomas Dieringer. We are super thrilled to have him here. He is a manufacturing entrepreneur, software entrepreneur, sales leader, investor, mentor, and many other things. Thomas, father and founder — awesome that you're here. Thank you for coming to the podcast. Maybe in the beginning, just give us a general introduction from your side, and then we’ll dive in.

Thomas Dieringer (Guest): Thank you for the introduction. I’m happy to be here and to give you some insights about my personal career and how I see the industry developing from my standpoint.

Sasan Hashemi: Thomas, when preparing for the podcast and looking at your career, I had the feeling you’ve lived multiple careers — almost multiple lifetimes. But you actually started very much in manufacturing. You were part of an injection molding company, a family company that you took over. What was it like growing up with manufacturing around you?

Thomas Dieringer: That was actually my second step. My first step, interestingly enough, was as a Nixdorf representative in Eastern Europe. At that time, it was quite unique because there weren’t many big companies operating there. Nixdorf was very famous in the German manufacturing industry. I founded a company in Hungary and tried to sell software, but I was completely unsuccessful for more than a year. Then the Berlin Wall fell in 1989, and suddenly all the German companies expanded into Eastern Europe. Sales skyrocketed. It became very successful. Back then, many German companies used Nixdorf software outside their headquarters, while SAP mainly ran on mainframes at HQ. That changed in 1993 when SAP launched SAP R/3.

Sasan Hashemi: Maybe for the audience — Nixdorf, SAP R/3 — could you briefly explain what we’re talking about?

Thomas Dieringer: Of course. Nixdorf had software similar to what SAP R/3 later became — including modules for manufacturing, controlling, material handling, and more. SAP originally focused on mainframe systems at headquarters. When SAP launched R/3 in 1993, it was revolutionary. Companies started replacing local systems with SAP R/3. We implemented some of the first SAP R/3 projects in manufacturing companies — including ZF in Hungary. I eventually sold my company because we didn’t have SAP know-how. At that time, the only way to learn SAP was directly from SAP itself.

Sasan Hashemi: Let me step back for a moment. You founded that company in the early 1990s. Most people didn’t even have personal computers. The internet wasn’t really there. And you’re starting a very specific software company for manufacturing. How did that happen?

Thomas Dieringer: It was related to my father. He had an injection molding company in Austria, and his head of IT left to join Nixdorf. I developed a complete production planning software for our injection molding business. At the time, I didn’t even know similar systems already existed. But ours was highly tailored to our needs — injection molding, cavities, cycle times, utilization, machinery costs. That experience helped me tremendously later when implementing SAP R/3 in manufacturing companies. From Hungary, we expanded into Czechoslovakia, later split into the Czech Republic and Slovakia, then Poland and Russia. I was in Moscow when the first McDonald's opened. People queued for five hours. It was an exciting time.

Sasan Hashemi: And you coded yourself?

Thomas Dieringer: Yes. We sold Nixdorf software, translated it, implemented local financial regulations. At the same time, I developed production planning software for our injection molding company. Then in 1996, my father’s company went bankrupt. I bought one Hungarian subsidiary — a small company with 45 employees producing TV housings. I started selling to Philips, Sony, Bang & Olufsen, JVC. Later, we supplied components indirectly to Audi and Volkswagen — cylinder head covers, interior parts, painted plastic components. What I learned there was intense cost negotiation with German buyers — hourly rates, cost breakdowns, continuous cost reduction.

Sasan Hashemi: Later you moved into tech and software. What did you carry over from running a physical manufacturing company?

Thomas Dieringer: A lot. Philips had an extremely strong supplier development program. I learned about quality management, 8D reports, complaint handling, continuous improvement, cost reduction methods. Those lessons shaped everything I did afterward.

Sasan Hashemi: You were on the supplier side before moving into procurement software. Did that shape your perspective?

Thomas Dieringer: Absolutely. We built Excel tools to calculate product costs including scrap, rework, yield rates. When I sold the injection molding company to Nolato, I founded a software company to build product costing software. Initially, the idea was similar to what Tset does today — product cost calculation in a SaaS model. But in 2001–2002, SaaS was not common. Security concerns were huge. In China, many companies didn’t even have stable internet access. Our first breakthrough came with Hansgrohe. We built a system that allowed cost breakdown submissions for RFQs — something SAP couldn’t do at the time. That became the foundation for Pool4Tool.

Sasan Hashemi: You founded the company in Vienna?

Thomas Dieringer: Yes. Development was done in PHP — even the first Facebook version was built in PHP. At that time, everything was unplanned. There was no startup ecosystem. No internet resources on how to build a startup. Later, at an eProcure trade fair, we realized we weren’t alone — there were 20 competitors. Our advantage was my manufacturing background. I knew exactly what companies needed.

Sasan Hashemi: You’re known as a strong sales leader. Was sales always natural for you?

Thomas Dieringer: In manufacturing, I was already responsible for sales. In consumer electronics, new products launched every year — giving new opportunities constantly. Later, in Pool4Tool, I invested heavily in sales training — conflict management, structured sales processes, value-based selling. We even co-authored a book with a university on calculating ROI for SRM solutions. The key lesson: customers don’t buy features. They buy value.

Sasan Hashemi: If a young sales professional asked you for one principle?

Thomas Dieringer: Think how the customer thinks. Why should they buy? Why from you? Why now?

Sasan Hashemi: Pool4Tool eventually merged and became Jaggaer. What was going through your mind after 15 years of building your own company?

Thomas Dieringer: It was emotional. I had bootstrapped the company for 15 years without external investment. Every year was a roller coaster. If things failed, I would lose everything. The merger with an American private equity-backed company changed everything. The US sales culture was extremely quarter-driven. End-of-quarter pressure was intense. I learned a lot about speed, discipline, and performance management.

Sasan Hashemi: What’s your verdict on the American “hire fast, fire fast” philosophy?

Thomas Dieringer: It saves time. Private equity works within five-year cycles. You don’t have time to train underperformers long-term. Europeans often hire based on trust. Americans hire based on track record and experience. It’s sharper — but also more transactional.

Sasan Hashemi: After Jaggaer, you became a business angel. Why?

Thomas Dieringer: Real estate investments are boring. Startups are intellectually stimulating. I enjoy working with young founders. I help them avoid mistakes, save time, save money. The biggest lesson? The team matters more than the idea.

Sasan Hashemi: What defines a great founding team?

Thomas Dieringer: Focus. Stay on course. Don’t try to serve everyone. Dominate a niche first. And manage your burn rate carefully. Growth at any cost is no longer acceptable. Profitability matters.

Sasan Hashemi: Let’s talk about AI. From early SaaS to today’s AI revolution — is this just another tool or something more fundamental?

Thomas Dieringer: It’s fundamental. Previously, software digitized existing manual processes one-to-one. Now, AI changes the processes themselves. Category strategies used to be reviewed every 18–24 months. Today, that’s obsolete. You must reassess constantly. Negotiation preparation will be largely AI-driven. Much more data, much faster decisions. Companies must become radically more agile. Even CEOs must rethink strategy every few months.

Sasan Hashemi: Thomas, from the manufacturing floor to the future of AI — thank you. Incredible journey.  Final words?

Thomas Dieringer: I wish you all the best. The world is changing — politically, economically, technologically. I’m sure Tset will adapt and do a great job.

Sasan Hashemi: Thank you, Thomas. Bye to the audience.